Subject	ok I think I see what is going on
Posted by	aliaZ on October 03, 2006 at 11:07 PM
	This message has been viewed 141 times.
In Reply To	which data are you referring to? (n/m) posted by aliaZ on October 03, 2006 at 10:27 PM
Message	Although I can't see nick's chart because the host is down, judging from this thread: [ http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg.aspx?forum=general&msg_id=1609001 ] It appears that nick used actual instead of corrected flow rates for the MS manifold flow results in his chart, which makes it appear that there is better than 100% efficiency, which isn't possible. If you compare the MS flow data in CCFM here: [ http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg.aspx?forum=general&msg_id=1608800 ] and the data for "Open Exhasut Port" here: [ http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg.aspx?forum=general&msg_id=916360 ] it makes a bit more sense, and clearly shows that it is not 100% efficient. Ash has been crying foul all along, when it was actually just a misinterpretation of the data.
Follow Ups	Going to the flowbench tomorrow >>>>> - Ash's Z 23:48:40 10/02/06 what's the picture gonna be used for? (n/m) - inf 23:58:14 10/02/06 To keep me in check. :) (n/m) - Ash's Z 00:01:17 10/03/06 I have an HKS intake you may use to check against.. - Shawn300zTT GT28R MD 00:23:56 10/03/06 Also, Have you thought about flowing a stock 52mm - Shawn300zTT GT28R MD 00:25:43 10/03/06 2nd.. i wouldnt mind seeing the flow differences - fst300zx 00:52:29 10/03/06 Well.. - Shawn300zTT GT28R MD 01:12:51 10/03/06 dyno tune was 11:5 ..seeing 10:8 or 11:1 on the street .. - The Devils Z 08:59:07 10/03/06 i can send you some apexi filters I have at the house - maglito 00:44:50 10/03/06 Cool :) (n/m) - RedBeauty84zx (San Antonio) 01:02:18 10/03/06 Hey! I have that same 12V power supply... - Zluster(Abudan) 01:11:58 10/03/06 Your wife in the pic looks like "Stifflers Mom" lol (n/m) - PiotrC70 01:24:40 10/03/06 I can see it already happening, Your gonna test the Pop - Eishozzzz 05:45:36 10/03/06 Are you busting my balls here or are you being sarcastic? - Ash's Z 09:59:34 10/03/06 I wouldn't call the other flow tests "flawed" - aliaZ 06:13:55 10/03/06 "flawed" or not, perhaps AliaZ could arrange .... - I-xclr8 09:58:52 10/03/06 It is safe to say that if an independent comparison - Guapo 10:05:36 10/03/06 I Nominate Steve Millen (n/m) - Adam (NoVA) 10:08:16 10/03/06 nope ... his connection to JWT could be called into question (n/m) - Guapo 10:11:54 10/03/06 I still contend that there is no way... - I-xclr8 10:35:24 10/03/06 Fear? What are you talking about? - Adam (NoVA) 10:40:44 10/03/06 Send Mike Smith my manifolds for... - I-xclr8 10:55:59 10/03/06 you make no point - Adam (NoVA) 11:02:10 10/03/06 I didn't say there was no objective judge. I said - Guapo 10:45:16 10/03/06 Well, quit talking about it and do it. (n/m) - Ash's Z 11:17:21 10/03/06 ok. I nominate Damon. (n/m) - Guapo 11:22:48 10/03/06 Fair enough. I'll do my tests, and we'll let Damon do the - Ash's Z 14:20:08 10/03/06 Re: Fair enough. I'll do my tests, and we'll let Damon do t - Guapo 14:43:45 10/03/06 Cute, and clever..... but you didn't answer my question. - Ash's Z 00:36:15 10/04/06 My opinion is that you do not have the overall standing in - Guapo 09:54:51 10/04/06 I'm not concerned if people discard the data I provide. - Ash's Z 13:05:01 10/04/06 cool. Look forward to seeing them. (n/m) - Guapo 14:52:43 10/04/06 He's gonna fry you :D - SeedyROM 17:34:29 10/03/06 I dont think Damon needed to be pulled into this. - Ash's Z 00:42:35 10/04/06 "why put it down before it is even disclosed?" - Guapo 09:56:18 10/04/06 does deadly have a bong to even test off of? (n/m) - Halo Z 22:03:01 10/03/06 I would think the suppliers should all concur on a test haus - BigTDogg (MA) 10:51:23 10/03/06 what he said (n/m) - Adam (NoVA) 10:53:03 10/03/06 as I've said before - aliaZ 12:29:12 10/03/06 I would way rather have somthing that is - Shawn300zTT GT28R MD 12:39:42 10/03/06 As would 98% of the members here. Very niche market - BigTDogg (MA) 12:46:28 10/03/06 agreed (n/m) - Adam (NoVA) 13:43:35 10/03/06 Actually Shawn, you wouldn't and you dont. - Ash's Z 14:27:57 10/03/06 bah.. details..:) - Shawn300zTT GT28R MD 16:29:16 10/03/06 At some point people buy new downpipes... - I-xclr8 13:12:12 10/03/06 at some point people *upgrade* to new downpipes - aliaZ 17:07:43 10/03/06 i though the manifold where for air flow. - Halo Z 22:05:17 10/03/06 LOL. (n/m) - Inzane 10:44:38 10/03/06 U get jokes? :) (n/m) - Adam (NoVA) 10:45:52 10/03/06 Just videotape the entire flowbench session :) (n/m) - Kick'n 10:21:12 10/03/06 FWIW, I could care less about who lets middleschool - Ash's Z 10:40:17 10/03/06 I said nothing about your contributions to the Z32 - Guapo 10:49:44 10/03/06 Thanks for your opinion. (n/m) - Ash's Z 11:15:34 10/03/06 Oh please. - Kenny 11:50:13 10/03/06 . (n/m) - Ash's Z 11:57:37 10/03/06 This test will clarify nothing - Adam (NoVA) 10:24:08 10/03/06 Their test was not properly set up. - Ash's Z 11:38:31 10/03/06 Sure it was. - Kenny 11:45:06 10/03/06 They only flowtested one port of three in the manifolds - Ash's Z 11:48:34 10/03/06 The data is not inaccurate, it is incomplete though. - Kenny 11:52:09 10/03/06 The data is inaccurate because it does not represent the - Ash's Z 13:42:14 10/03/06 The data is not inaccurate, your inferences are. - Kenny 16:48:08 10/03/06 OK, here's an example of what I mean: - Ash's Z 00:19:08 10/04/06 testing individual components vs. parts of a system - maglito 01:42:00 10/04/06 actually - aliaZ 09:47:28 10/04/06 I think he was asking why the original tests - maglito 15:17:54 10/04/06 You make valid points, then an invalid conclusion. - Kenny 11:27:29 10/04/06 I dont think you understand how different some heads can - Ash's Z 13:15:50 10/04/06 I'm not sure where you got that from. - Kenny 13:59:54 10/04/06 So what sort of equation are we going to assume... - Kenny 09:04:17 10/03/06 The relationship is rather simple - I derived an equation - Ash's Z 10:24:52 10/03/06 Cool =). (n/m) - Kenny 10:28:47 10/03/06 OOooo.. giving out the recipe for secret sauce :-) (n/m) - spicyZ 10:35:38 10/03/06 Hehehe.. I should shoot myself in the right foot. (n/m) - Ash's Z 01:06:33 10/04/06 Can you supply a full derivation for that equation? - CaliguyPurdue 15:33:06 10/03/06 The equation the way I explained it can be simplified. - Ash's Z 01:05:38 10/04/06 Thanks for doing this Ash, I look forward to the results - 300zx90 (CO) 09:11:04 10/03/06 Hey Ash - Tony@GZperformance 09:21:04 10/03/06 who's is that?????? i mean what company... (n/m) - Zski 09:26:09 10/03/06 Its the GReddy unit that comes with its FMIC's (n/m) - Shawn300zTT GT28R MD 12:43:01 10/03/06 I'm game for it. Email me - (n/m) - Ash's Z 12:08:06 10/03/06 have fun! can't wait for some results (n/m) - Seb (specialty-Z) 10:32:32 10/03/06 cool - Adam (NoVA) 10:51:06 10/03/06 Yeah, the response to the testing of the manifolds was - Ash's Z 11:12:48 10/03/06 Well, it may not be a bad place to start compiling that - Adam (NoVA) 11:18:14 10/03/06 Stop it. - ni[X]it 15:58:52 10/03/06 That is pretty. Now that I think about it, you're pretty. (n/m) - Rage (Troll) 17:36:54 10/03/06 Re: Stop it. I wish you would stop.... - I-xclr8 20:19:11 10/03/06 eh - aliaZ 20:50:56 10/03/06 I think you missed his point - maglito 21:16:58 10/03/06 I think Ash had issues with VE being greater than 100% - The Devils Z 21:45:28 10/03/06 which data are you referring to? (n/m) - aliaZ 22:27:00 10/03/06 ok I think I see what is going on - aliaZ 23:07:32 10/03/06 I'm not sure if I know what point he was.... - I-xclr8 22:05:55 10/03/06 there is merit to testing with the upstream component in the - maglito 00:54:21 10/04/06 My biggest complaint here is the fact that I have provided - Ash's Z 00:45:25 10/04/06 do your flow testing, present your data (n/m) - maglito 01:11:04 10/04/06 LOL, that was/is the plan. :) - Ash's Z 01:37:14 10/04/06 test a dirty K&N (20k+ miles) vs it freshly cleaned/charged (n/m) - maglito 01:58:35 10/04/06 HUGE 2nd! Also stock airbox. (n/m) - CaliguyPurdue 10:49:53 10/04/06 I have nothing to gain or anything to lose in the test. - Ash's Z 00:26:44 10/04/06 Now you're just arguing semantics. - Kenny 12:06:10 10/04/06 So are you saying that every cylinder head, valve, and - Ash's Z 12:35:11 10/04/06 Of course not. - Kenny 12:53:10 10/04/06 I'm not going to pick your opinion apart. I will just fall - Ash's Z 13:19:42 10/04/06 The testing can be improved, your method would be... - Kenny 13:48:50 10/04/06 Nick, how is this any different? - Ash's Z 12:37:00 10/04/06 "how the Z1, Stillen, HKS and Greddy stack up" --> - Inzane 11:13:53 10/03/06 Well, I wont be getting the flowbench information today >>>> - Ash's Z 13:36:24 10/03/06 When you test the manifolds why not test using your - CaliguyPurdue 15:36:05 10/03/06 I appreciate the advice, Jim. I take it you are referring - Ash's Z 00:31:59 10/04/06 Yep that way I have something to compare - CaliguyPurdue 10:45:04 10/04/06
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